Comments on vinceantonucci.com: Lobby Tests and Fabric Stores

I'm sure that it could be successfully argued that...

2007-09-03T03:50:00.000-04:00

I'm sure that it could be successfully argued that this "lobby test" is not scientific and is fallible.

BUT the reality is still true that most of church growth does come from shifting of the flock. My guess is that this post was written to support that theory not try to prove it. I've gone to church for forty years and know it to be true where I live.

To quote Vince (and someone has to) "we suck". To quote me "I suck".

I want to learn how to better reach the lost and it is hard to find good example to follow.

Thanx Vince

The one thing I'd add is that just because a perso...

2007-09-02T23:17:00.000-04:00

The one thing I'd add is that just because a person is able to name the church they came from doesn't mean they were/are a Christian.

There are many lost people in the bible belt who are "churched" but don't understand the Gospel.

I throw that out though knowing what you're saying -- it is sad that many churches growth is through disgruntled Christians changing their address.

I was in VB just a few years ago...I'm at Nags Hea...

2007-09-01T21:00:00.000-04:00

I was in VB just a few years ago...

I'm at Nags Head Church.

Hey Nate,Don't know why. We're only nine years ol...

2007-09-01T14:56:00.000-04:00

Hey Nate,

Don't know why. We're only nine years old, so if you were in VB more than nine years ago, we weren't here.

We don't have a building so you wouldn't have driven past us.

We have been on the news and in the newspaper a bunch - all for good things - mostly for what we do for the homeless (we've completely re-done and given mobile homes to the homeless; had a Christmas banquet for them; etc., etc.).

What church are you at in OBX?

v

How come I've never heard of you or your church......

2007-09-01T14:07:00.000-04:00

How come I've never heard of you or your church...I was at a VB church for two years before relocating to the OBX, and I've got a good handle on the church culture of this area, but somehow I've missed you until now. I may have to visit sometime...

Nate

Vince,I like you.Jason in TX

2007-08-31T23:30:00.000-04:00

Vince,
I like you.

Jason in TX

Hey Karl,Good question. I was part of starting a ...

2007-08-31T13:53:00.000-04:00

Hey Karl,

Good question. I was part of starting a church nine years ago (and continue to be the Lead Pastor) that is focused (possibly to a fault) in reaching people who are truly lost and are very far from God. As with any church, we have our fair share of problems, but one thing we do really well is reach lost people. For instance, 72% of people who come have never been to church or gave up on church years ago.

That's why I was asked to do this blog. This wasn't my idea. Newchurches.com asked me to contribute a featured blog on the subject of reaching lost people - I guess because of our reputation for doing it well. I don't consider myself an expert on anything, including this, but if there's one thing I feel pretty comfortable in - it's this.

So, if you want to keep reading this blog - we ARE going to share practical ideas for reaching really lost people (not just bemoan the fact that many churches aren't).

Thanks for your comment!!

Another question that comes to mind. Why are you ...

2007-08-31T10:54:00.000-04:00

Another question that comes to mind. Why are you doing this "Research?"

I have only read this particular article in your blog. If I were to take the time I'm sure I could find an extensive background of info. Or you could give a brief answer that would quickly bring me and other drive-by commentators up to speed.

The reason I ask is that I rarely run across folks who tout this kind of info (growing churches are all transfer growth, blah, blah, blah) who are themselves doing something productive to win souls and build the kingdom of God. Too often they are denigrating someone elses success so they can rationalize their own dysfunctional, ineffective or even sometimes apostate churches.

So, I ask. What positive, productive use are you planning for your Lobby Test?

There is a small weakness in the question strategy...

2007-08-31T08:57:00.000-04:00

There is a small weakness in the question strategy. Some years ago the southern church I attended did a door to door campaign to contact people about church. Many claimed they attended a church that they walked down the aisle, or perhaps were baptized, 10 or 20 years ago. When doing follow-up with that church's pastor, the current pastor did not know the person or family.

Sometimes transfer growth is a rare attender becoming a regular attender at a different church. People may be hesitant to say they don't have a previous church.

While I observe a huge amount of 'Church Shopping'...

2007-08-31T00:20:00.000-04:00

While I observe a huge amount of 'Church Shopping' going on around the country, there are two other factors that may either skew the numbers a bit or rationalize the shifting masses.

1. Was there a significant time gap between churches? Many people grow up as nominal members of their parent's church and then drop out of the church scene till some life change motivates or calls them back. So, if there was a five, ten or twenty year gap in between churches, that raises a different concern than jumping from one church to another.

2. Did changing churches change their committment or involvement level? If they went from attending their old church a couple times a month and throwing a fiver in the plate once in awhile to showing up three times a week including Sunday Service, Small Group Study and the missions outreach team along with tithing ten percent of their income, I would see that as a positive change.

But if it's same-old-same-old; showing up only Sunday morning and going home to roast pastor for dinner, then we're just re-mixing the marbles.

Vince - I think that you are right on here. Great ...

2007-08-30T22:46:00.000-04:00

Vince - I think that you are right on here. Great questions and great perspective. Reaching non and nominally religious people means that they have had no previous experience as part of a church, or that took place a long time ago. Thanks!

Very interesting and, yes, pretty depressing. Wish...

2007-08-30T20:07:00.000-04:00

Very interesting and, yes, pretty depressing. Wish I could try it at my own church but people give me enough weird looks there now as it is. (Entirely a reflection on me ... not them.)