Next week I'll have several more posts on the "Waaaa, I'm not getting fed" series, but in case you're coming in late, here's where we've been ...
1. http://www.vinceantonucci.com/2008/01/waaaaa-im-not-getting-fed-part-1.html
2. http://www.vinceantonucci.com/2008/01/waaaaa-im-not-getting-fed-part-2a.html
3. http://www.vinceantonucci.com/2008/01/waaaaa-im-not-getting-fed-part-2b.html
4. http://www.vinceantonucci.com/2008/01/waaaaa-im-not-getting-fed-part-3.html
And thanks for all your comments, it's been fun reading what you're thinking....
And: If you think I'm wrong in doing this series, read my comment on this post. It may not change your mind, but at least you'll see what I'm thinking...
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Thursday, January 17, 2008
Where We're At... Waaaaaa!
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Vince I love you man and I know you're not above having grace shown to you but I am having a hard time with the fact that the guy who talks about being "Grace Wholesalers" has posted this waaa I'm not getting fed series. Isn't showing grace more than something we do to someone's face. Isn't showing grace a lifestyle that not only changes the person being shown grace but also the person showing grace? I know that complaining feels good but would these postings be something that you would want to share with your congregation after talking with them about being grace wholesalers? Help me to understand how it all fits!
Good question, and I'll think about it more, because maybe you're more right than I realize.
But here's what I would say: (1)Everything I'm sharing in this series I have shared with my congregation, and with people who say they're not getting fed. So this is not something I'm doing behind anyone's back, and I would be comfortable with anyone reading this.
(2) I believe it's completely possible to be a grace wholesaler AND point out problems. >>Example: Jesus. He also called the Pharisees hypocrties and a brood of vipers. Did that mean He wasn't a Grace Wholesaler? No, He was, but there is a time and place to point out someone's problems, even in a harsh way. >>Illustration: I'm a loving guy, but if I find a poisonous snake in my baby's crib, I will take it out and kill it. Not because I'm mean, but because I need to protect my baby. >>In the same way, I think people who try to control their preachers and kidnap the vision of their church with the "I'm not getting fed" comment are poisonous to the health of their pastors and their churches. So ... my goal is not to be a jerk, but to set some pastors free from having to bow down to the people who say they're not getting fed, so that they can bow down to God (and the vision He's given them for their church and their preaching) alone.
Hope that makes sense. But who knows, I may be wrong and you may be right...
Vic,
As a church-planter, I greatly appreciate the series. I have definitely heard the complaint and I have had the same experience of preaching "deep" content and still having that rejected because of a perception about either me or the church. Keep up the good work!
I don't know if I completely agree with those examples Vince, I'll have to think about it. Sounds a bit like justifying yourself(well I guess it is :)) Maybe the thing that got my panties in a bunch is that you are (right now anyway)just pointing at a problem and not offering any solutions. I don't know if you plan on offering any solutions but if you don't maybe that's what I think the graceless part is. Let me ask you this too and I hope I am not ruining the series. Do you actually dialogue with these people at your office one on one and really try and connect with them. I guess to I am thinking a bit too fluffy. I don't see these people as Church destroyers but as people who are broken and need like Hybels said for the local church to be the hope of the world but instead the church just doesn't want to deal with them. Now I know this next statement will probably get some Bible verses thrown at it( did I mention my disdain for people who always whip out a verse that they have interpreted to suit their needs...more on that later)but I don't think it's the churches job to pick and choose which broken people you are going to deal with and which ones you don't want around. Don't get me wrong I say run things like you feel that the spirit is leading you, but broken is broken and we are just as broken as I'm not getting fed guy. Peace out
how about this: i have already written - there are seven more posts coming in the next five weekdays. why don't you see if i answer your questions, and if not, feel free to ask them again next friday. cool?
Fair enough and your still my favorite husky pastor!!!!!
that's cool, 'cause i'm my favorite husky pastor. and you may be my favorite anonymous person - unless i really know you -then you may be my least favorite anonymous person...
WOW!!! I couldn't agree more with this series!!!! Honestly if someone came to me and said "i'm not being fed" I wouldn't call them a cry baby, I'd filter that a bit.
OK... If your a christian and your relationship with God or how you are being fed depends on your pastors sermon you may have a problem, a HUGE problem.
Yes, a sermon can and will move you but it should never directly effect your walk with God.
Second, as christians we have to hold each other accountable, sharpen one another and spur each other on. The truth hurts some times but it has to come out.
Vince I see it as you do.
Honestly, if any of these people weren’t willing to change I wouldn’t want them going to my church. I think once it’s brought to their attention pride sets in, because as you said before the only people (Christians) who say this are self proclaimed long time Christians.
“It is not what your church can do for you, but what you can do for the church”
Vince,
I have appreciated this series, and it has challenged me quite a bit. Lots to think on!
But here is my question: The kind of Christians who complain about not getting fed are the "professional Christian" kind who have been in Christianity and around Christians for a long time and who read Christian books and listen to someone like John MacArthur. But I guess I was under the impression that you didn't have many (or any) of these kinds of Christians at Forefront.
So who is making these complaints? Is is people who became believers in and through Forefront, or is it believers who started attending Forefront after leaving their previous church? I can't imagine it would be the former. So it must the latter, and be some people who have come with their own agenda, and havn't fully accepted the vision and mission of Forefront.
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