Okay, this is like the 400th post in this series (sorry) but we’re talking about what spiritual maturity looks like and why people say, “I’m not getting fed” and how if you’re not feeling close to God or where you need to be spiritually, there’s no way my 30 minute sermon can help you.
Earlier I used a marriage as a metaphor, here’s another one: If you feel woefully out of shape physically, and once a week you attend a seminar on how to work out, or how to eat healthy, but then the rest of the week don’t live any different, can you complain about the seminars?
Of course not! A seminar can’t get you in good shape, you have to DO what the seminar is talking about, and you have to do it consistently.
And so … stop giving me your “I’m not getting fed” crap and go home and spend lots of time face-to-face with God, and you WILL grow in intimacy with Him. And then you’ll realize that there’s something far better than knowing about God, and it’s knowing God.
(Sorry, I lost it there for a minute.)
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10 comments:
It seems like a lot of people who come to Forefront have no prior Church experience, so why do you think they develop this attitude when going to Forefront and having you as Pastor? It seems like that would be the enviroment that produced Christians who didn't think that way.
Wow, that sounds a little caustic and accusatory............
(1) Forefront, in general, does have people for who this is their first church but that doesn't mean that every body who attends FF has never been to another church
(2) Forefront sets a very high bar, Christs standards, and if you don't want to try to clear the bar, any excuse for not continueing will do. It can't be my fault, it must be Forefront, Vince, the weather, my mother in law. You get the picture.
I spoek to a guy the other day that left Forefront because he wasn't getting fed, someone i looked up to a strong Christian leader.......well guess what, when I spoke to him, he didn't like the church he went to so he went to another, didn't like that one either and now he is lookign for a home.......
Didn't mean for the question to be caustic but I think it is worth asking. Topics like this deserve looking at it from both sides, Vince is a really smart guy and I;m sure he has thought about both sides, I'm just picking his brain.
I've known a few people from Forefront who left because they were "not being fed", and they all had a church background. In fact, they had backgrounds at several churches, and I think that's the problem. Most of the people I've met who have used this argument have been church-hoppers, and "I'm not being fed" is just another excuse in a long line of excuses. (Their old church? Didn't like the music. The one before that? Asked for money too much. Before that? Lobby was the wrong shade of brown. Get my point?) It's one thing to genuinely want a deeper understanding of the Bible, but it's another issue when it becomes an excuse to criticize the church.
God is bigger than a 30 min. sermon man. I agree with the previous. If you don't feel "fed", you can't blame it on a sermon. What about worship, serving and living in christian community? Is that not feeding you? Isn't that what God calls us to do? When I hear the "I'm not feeling fed and it's your fault" remark, all I see is someone being selfish. Maybe even prideful. And I hold this to any spiritual aspect. You can't blame someone or something else.
KLMJ
If my child comes to me day after day whining saying I can't do this I can't do that and I know they can but they are just being lazy then before I would tell them to get off their butt I would give some thought as to why they have this tude. Did I instill it in them? That's what I'm asking here. If I'm a Pastor and someone says I'm not getting fed I take it on a case by case basis. Is this person known to church hop? Are they vocalizing what they feel correctly? Have I as Pastor of this Church done something to instill this into them? Has my staff done something to instill it? Am I addressing this issue with the congregation? I think the old adage you can tell a tree by it's fruit comes into play here. Is the tree(church) producing this fruit(people with this attitude)And if they were produced by a different tree(church) and graphed into this tree(church) what is this tree(church) doing to help resolve it? Or in other words, you are what you eat.
I think we do each other a terrible disservice if we always agree with one another. Encouragement is great but we must challenge one another. Iron sharpens iron and all that jazz
Most of the problem is with us as ministers. We create a culture that new people will think is fun and inviting and worth coming to for "the show". Later when they're Christians we tell them they shouldn't want to be entertained by us--they should feed themselves. But we're the ones who trained them to get fed at church in the first place! There are a couple church hoppers here and there, but for the people who get bored because they're not getting fed, it's often in large part our own fault--it's like a bait and switch, really.
I will have to agree some with the above post and give another example of where it might be the church contributing to the problem. I attend a church that recently moved from a two service a Sunday format to a one service format. Back when it was a two service format people that served in the children's ministry srtved one service and attended the other service. This can make for a long Sunday and some of us thought from time to time we'd just come one service and serve in the children's ministry. We were told that if we could only make one service to make it the service that we could sit in on the sermon instead of serving so we could get fed. This happened to me and I know of a few others in the children's ministry with the same story and that were told this by different staffers. I myself do not hold the pastor's message responsible for being my meal but I can see how people would if the staff at church are saying we want you fed by the pastor over you serving because that sounds like the message that is being sent. The disappointing thing is when we moved to one service these same people who were originally told DON"T MISS YOUR FEEDING were now expected to serve and miss the sermon so yes I think the church can at times be held liable for peoples mindsets.
something else Pastors should realize is that their career revolves around Christianity and the lifestyle way more than the normal Harry and Sue. Yes Haryy and Sue should make time for God in their lives but think they are in a more secular world day in and day out. Maybe Pastors should put themselves into the shoes of others and say wow their daily grind looks alot different than mine. I know people who would be fired for praying at work or even if they stopped working to pray silently. Some Pastors I know even get time off from work for prayer and reflection. Most people have to put in for vacation time for something like that and these guys have it figured into their schedule. If you are a Pastor ask yourself if your face time with God would decrease if you were a single mom working two jobs in the secular world. Yes that mom should have margins but saying that and doing it are two different things.
I find it interesting that all who posted on this particular Post did it anonymously? huh....
Having been at Forefront from the beginning pretty much (The 1st Sunday); this group of folks consist of two groups:
#1 - Christians and church goers from previous churches who are in fact never really satisfied. Why? Cuz their trying to find God through the church! Wrong answer - It is a catalyst, but not the final solution. Time with HIM and seeking Him with all your Heart, Mind, and Soul help you find God.
#2 - The other group is those who might have significant issues they are struggling with, and this can be a myriad of issues: addictions, finances, etc.... They think the church is the solution and it can be to a degree, but again it comes down to the heart of the seeker. How much intentionality do they really have in their hearts for seeking God to the fullest? Dunno?
So.., they end up leaving, cuz we don't have the answer or they feel like we aren't doing enough to fix them - or they are not willing to take the necessary steps to fix themselves. So.., they go find some other place that will appease them. Unfortunate, but true.
There has been one particular thing that has been pushed from the very start at Forefront and it is part of the DNA of the church.
"LOVE GOD and LOVE PEOPLE!", and the church can't make ya do that. You have to wanna do that.
Just my two cents!
IHL,
Richie
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