Maybe I’ve been to your church. Maybe not, but I’ve visited a lot of churches – and I usually try to visit those that are supposed to be growing and doing exciting things, or churches that are very new. So if your church is supposed to be growing, doing exciting things, or is new, maybe I’ve been to your church. If so, here’s what I did …
Whenever I go to a church I do my “lobby test.” I walk around wide-eyed and gawking like an amazed tourist at Disney Land. I walk up to people and say, “Wow, this church is amazing. Do you go here?” When the person proudly answers in the affirmative, I ask, “That’s cool! How long have you attended this church?” After they answer, I ask, “What church did you go to before this one?”
That question was the whole point. I want to find out: Was this person regularly attending a church before attending this church?
The answers are absolutely depressing. In one church I asked forty-two people and every one of them quickly identified their previous church. In every church where I’ve done this a huge majority of the people had come from other churches. And, remember, I only do this in churches that are growing, exciting, new, cool.
Often after they tell me the church they used to attend I ask one more question. I say something like, “Oh. Well this church you’re attending now seems awesome. If you weren’t going here, would you go to that last church, or if not, what church would you go to?” At this point they’re looking at me a little weird, because I’m asking more questions than Judge Ito at the O.J. trial, but still they answer. And, in almost every case, they name a church. Not the church they used to attend; they name a different church they would attend if they stopped going to their current church.
Okay, so you can correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m thinking that if you reach a truly lost person: (1) They wouldn’t be able to tell you what church they were attending, because they weren’t, and (2) They wouldn’t be able to name what other church they would attend. (Like, if for some reason you found me at a fabric store, and asked me which fabric store I would go to if not this one, I would say, “How the crap should I know? I don’t go to fabric stores. It’s weird that I’m even in this one.” If I quickly told you the other fabric store alternatives, you would have to assume that my being in this fabric store was not that surprising).
Am I wrong?
And if I’m right, isn’t this just more evidence that, as I said in my first post: “We absolutely suck at reaching people who are far from God. There are lots of things our churches do well, but if we’re being honest, leading lost people to Jesus is not one of them.” (I have decided to make it a habit to quote myself. Someone has to quote me!)
So enough bad news, I’m even making myself miserable. Next time I’ll start telling you a little about me, and about my church, and sharing some of what we’ve learned about not sucking at reaching people who are far from God.
Until then … blog naked!
- Featured on newchurches.com
Thursday, August 30, 2007
Lobby Tests and Fabric Stores
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12 comments:
Very interesting and, yes, pretty depressing. Wish I could try it at my own church but people give me enough weird looks there now as it is. (Entirely a reflection on me ... not them.)
Vince - I think that you are right on here. Great questions and great perspective. Reaching non and nominally religious people means that they have had no previous experience as part of a church, or that took place a long time ago. Thanks!
While I observe a huge amount of 'Church Shopping' going on around the country, there are two other factors that may either skew the numbers a bit or rationalize the shifting masses.
1. Was there a significant time gap between churches? Many people grow up as nominal members of their parent's church and then drop out of the church scene till some life change motivates or calls them back. So, if there was a five, ten or twenty year gap in between churches, that raises a different concern than jumping from one church to another.
2. Did changing churches change their committment or involvement level? If they went from attending their old church a couple times a month and throwing a fiver in the plate once in awhile to showing up three times a week including Sunday Service, Small Group Study and the missions outreach team along with tithing ten percent of their income, I would see that as a positive change.
But if it's same-old-same-old; showing up only Sunday morning and going home to roast pastor for dinner, then we're just re-mixing the marbles.
There is a small weakness in the question strategy. Some years ago the southern church I attended did a door to door campaign to contact people about church. Many claimed they attended a church that they walked down the aisle, or perhaps were baptized, 10 or 20 years ago. When doing follow-up with that church's pastor, the current pastor did not know the person or family.
Sometimes transfer growth is a rare attender becoming a regular attender at a different church. People may be hesitant to say they don't have a previous church.
Another question that comes to mind. Why are you doing this "Research?"
I have only read this particular article in your blog. If I were to take the time I'm sure I could find an extensive background of info. Or you could give a brief answer that would quickly bring me and other drive-by commentators up to speed.
The reason I ask is that I rarely run across folks who tout this kind of info (growing churches are all transfer growth, blah, blah, blah) who are themselves doing something productive to win souls and build the kingdom of God. Too often they are denigrating someone elses success so they can rationalize their own dysfunctional, ineffective or even sometimes apostate churches.
So, I ask. What positive, productive use are you planning for your Lobby Test?
Hey Karl,
Good question. I was part of starting a church nine years ago (and continue to be the Lead Pastor) that is focused (possibly to a fault) in reaching people who are truly lost and are very far from God. As with any church, we have our fair share of problems, but one thing we do really well is reach lost people. For instance, 72% of people who come have never been to church or gave up on church years ago.
That's why I was asked to do this blog. This wasn't my idea. Newchurches.com asked me to contribute a featured blog on the subject of reaching lost people - I guess because of our reputation for doing it well. I don't consider myself an expert on anything, including this, but if there's one thing I feel pretty comfortable in - it's this.
So, if you want to keep reading this blog - we ARE going to share practical ideas for reaching really lost people (not just bemoan the fact that many churches aren't).
Thanks for your comment!!
Vince,
I like you.
Jason in TX
How come I've never heard of you or your church...I was at a VB church for two years before relocating to the OBX, and I've got a good handle on the church culture of this area, but somehow I've missed you until now. I may have to visit sometime...
Nate
Hey Nate,
Don't know why. We're only nine years old, so if you were in VB more than nine years ago, we weren't here.
We don't have a building so you wouldn't have driven past us.
We have been on the news and in the newspaper a bunch - all for good things - mostly for what we do for the homeless (we've completely re-done and given mobile homes to the homeless; had a Christmas banquet for them; etc., etc.).
What church are you at in OBX?
v
I was in VB just a few years ago...
I'm at Nags Head Church.
The one thing I'd add is that just because a person is able to name the church they came from doesn't mean they were/are a Christian.
There are many lost people in the bible belt who are "churched" but don't understand the Gospel.
I throw that out though knowing what you're saying -- it is sad that many churches growth is through disgruntled Christians changing their address.
I'm sure that it could be successfully argued that this "lobby test" is not scientific and is fallible.
BUT the reality is still true that most of church growth does come from shifting of the flock. My guess is that this post was written to support that theory not try to prove it. I've gone to church for forty years and know it to be true where I live.
To quote Vince (and someone has to) "we suck". To quote me "I suck".
I want to learn how to better reach the lost and it is hard to find good example to follow.
Thanx Vince
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